From: Matthew Nuzum (matt_at_followers.net)
Date: Sun 09 Nov 2003 - 20:35:19 GMT
Be careful. You're only comparing the upfront sticker price. If you can double or triple the capacity of your mailserver (I'll bet you can) and minimize the complexity of the solution (openmosix + vserver integration + multiple boxes (multiple points of failure) sounds very complex to me), I'll bet you find the TCO of the solution flip flop with SCSI being much lower than IDE.
A parallel example: I recently consulted with a fellow who was trying to run a 25,000 box mailserver on a series of aggregated DSL lines. It was easy work to show him that the TCO for a burstable T3 line was much lower than that of multiple DSL lines, even though the sticker price indicated the opposite.
Matthew Nuzum | Makers of “Elite Content Management System”
www.followers.net | View samples of Elite CMS in action
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: vserver-admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org [mailto:vserver-
> admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org] On Behalf Of Luís Miguel Silva
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 3:26 PM
> To: vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org
> Subject: RE: [Vserver] Vserver + OpenMosix...
>
> Hello Mat,
>
> I know that SCSI has better performance then IDE...but...analizing the
> price it just doenst compensate!
>
> I can only get about 60gb SCSI disk for the price i can get a 200gb IDE
> disk (more or less).
>
> We used to use SCSI disks but with the hdd inovations on the last years we
> realised that its a waste of money
> (in our case) to buy scsi!
>
> Thanks,
> Luís
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: vserver-admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org
> [mailto:vserver-admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org]Em nome de Matthew Nuzum
> Enviada: domingo, 9 de Novembro de 2003 20:12
> Para: vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org
> Assunto: RE: [Vserver] Vserver + OpenMosix...
>
>
> We have been working on an OpenMosix cluster in the computer club at the
> school where I'm taking classes now. I've found that the server
> applications that I typically use do not benefit from openmosix. The
> applications commonly fall into either of two categories:
>
> a) I/O bound applications that only slow down when migrated to a different
> node on the cluster, or
> b) Applications that are incompatible with Mosix for various reasons
> (threaded, shmem, device dependent etc.) such as Database software, Apache
> and other server processes.
>
> I think the audience of people who can legitimately benefit from a
> combined vserver/mosix installation is rather small.
>
> For those that have heavily loaded servers, why not just put fewer
> vservers on a server? If 6 is too many, just do 4 or 5. If you have
> extra boxes with spare cpu cycles, put the vserver there.
>
> Honestly, if your mailserver setup is too slow, I'm certain you can get
> better performance by switching from IDE disks to SCSI. In my recent
> tests, I/O tasks on IDE drives kept the CPU at about 53% utilization.
> Same tests on SCSI disks used only 14% utilization with the I/O processes
> taking significantly less time to complete on the SCSI. That was a system
> with a single IDE drive compared to the same system with a single SCSI
> drive.
>
> This is common knowledge among hardware people as the IDE subsystem uses
> system resources for the bulk of I/O where SCSI cards were designed to
> handle the I/O work much the same way a video card handles graphics work.
>
> Matthew Nuzum | ISPs: Make $200 - $5,000 per referral by
> www.followers.net | recommending Elite CMS to your customers!
> matt_at_followers.net | http://www.followers.net/isp
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vserver-admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org [mailto:vserver-
> > admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org] On Behalf Of Luís Miguel Silva
> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 12:18 PM
> > To: vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org
> > Subject: RE: [Vserver] Vserver + OpenMosix...
> >
> > Yes, my server is heavily loaded.
> > I have 2 IDE disks at 7200rpm, doing raid1.
> > The big load comes (mainly) from the mail server (when users use imapd
> > thru the webmail).
> >
> > I use kernel 2.4.21 + ctx17.
> >
> > I really dont believe in SMP solutions.
> > It is far more expensive then "setting up a cluster".
> >
> > In the past we (at my university) invested in dual processor boards but
> > now we are convinced that it is not a $good$ $solution$ (heheh).
> >
> > According to the funcionality of how the openmosix kernel works (imho)
> it
> > would be the best solution to load balance vservers.
> >
> > The vserver project is great for "low'cost production servers"
> > and...*SECURITY*!
> >
> > I think that if you would be able to get us vserver'users a
> "cluster'like"
> > solution...it would be the BEST "system administration" project *ever*!
> >
> > Best,
> > +-----------------------------------------
> > | Luís Miguel Silva
> > | Network Administrator@ ISPGaya.pt
> > | Rua António Rodrigues da Rocha, 291/341
> > | Sto. Ovídio • 4400-025 V. N. de Gaia
> > | Portugal
> > | T: +351 22 3745730/3/5 F: +351 22 3745738
> > | G: +351 93 6371253 E: lms_at_ispgaya.pt
> > | H: http://lms.ispgaya.pt/
> > +-----------------------------------------
> > -----Mensagem original-----
> > De: vserver-admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org
> > [mailto:vserver-admin_at_list.linux-vserver.org]Em nome de Herbert Poetzl
> > Enviada: domingo, 9 de Novembro de 2003 16:38
> > Para: Luís Miguel Silva
> > Cc: vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org
> > Assunto: Re: [Vserver] Vserver + OpenMosix...
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 09, 2003 at 09:48:08AM -0000, Luís Miguel Silva wrote:
> > > Hello everybody,
> > >
> > > I just thought of something!
> > > How about the vserver project "united" with the openmosix project?
> > > It would be great to be able to have multiple vservers enjoying
> > > the cheerfull'blesses of multi'processing.
> >
> > let me address this separated ...
> >
> > > One of my servers is a X86 2.6ghz with 512Mb ram running about 6
> > > vservers and it is *totally* lagged.
> >
> > either your 6 servers do really hard work, which will
> > bring down every system sooner or later, or your kernel
> > and/or configuration is not optimal. Another reason
> > could be a slow I/O (disk) and/or memory interface,
> > which usual is the bottleneck nowadays ...
> >
> > what you could do/try:
> >
> > - get a recent kernel and patch rmap and maybe O(1)
> > - use faster memory/disks (maybe striping, raid5)
> > - add a second processor, SMP systems are much more
> > resposive (smooth) with vservers
> >
> > > It would be great if we could balance the load thru other machines
> > > (like we do with openmosix).
> >
> > I agree that this sounds interesting and it might be
> > a viable solution to scale the vserver project beyond
> > the physical limits of one MP machine ...
> >
> > I do not have any deeper knowledge of OpenMosix and
> > no Farm where such a project could be tested/developed
> > so if there is interest in doing this, we'll need both.
> >
> > best,
> > Herbert
> >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > +-----------------------------------------
> > > | Luís Miguel Silva
> > > | Network Administrator@ ISPGaya.pt
> > > | Rua António Rodrigues da Rocha, 291/341
> > > | Sto. Ovídio • 4400-025 V. N. de Gaia
> > > | Portugal
> > > | T: +351 22 3745730/3/5 F: +351 22 3745738
> > > | G: +351 93 6371253 E: lms_at_ispgaya.pt
> > > | H: http://lms.ispgaya.pt/
> > > +-----------------------------------------
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